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Exclusive โ€“ in conversation with Daphne Frias and Selina Leem

We went to the Natural History Museumโ€™s Generation Hope: Act for the Planet event to highlight both the climate justice activistsโ€™ insights on the climate crisis and how we can drive positive change for the Earthโ€™s future.

Daphne Frias is a Latina climate justice activist, disability awareness advocate, and storyteller born and raised in West Harlem, NYC. As a freelance organiser, she spends her time speaking at various colleges, summits, and panels. She additionally consults with several non-profits, crafting engaging campaigns highlighting the voices of Gen Z. Her work focuses on achieving meaningful change through a holistic view of all communities and guaranteeing that we tackle disability and the environmental emergency simultaneously in order to create a just and equal future.

Selina Leem is a climate warrior, poet, and spoken word performer from the Marshall Islands. She was the youngest delegate to speak at COP21 and has also spoken at COP26, where she made a โ€˜passionate pleaโ€™ to world leaders for increased action on addressing the crisis. To date, sheโ€™s raised concerns on permafrost melting, forest fires, and droughts and continues to bolster awareness about her countryโ€™s lack of funds and expertise to adapt to the impending impacts of the climate crisis โ€“ which scientists predict could see the nation disappear within the next fifty years or less.

 

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Thred: Itโ€™s almost been a year since we last spoke at Generation Hopeโ€™s launch event. What wins has activism or climate science seen in that time? What losses?

Daphne: Right off the bat, what comes to mind is that the US has paused our liquified natural gas extractions, which is a huge win for the climate community because it means that President Biden has successfully been pushes to keep his electoral promises. Itโ€™s a testament to the organisers from different generations, backgrounds, communities, and abilities who have worked hard to make sure we stay in line.

Weโ€™ve seen a growth in the collective conscious experience of the climate crisis.

Selina: The Marshall Islands has been looking into sustainable sea transportation because this is our main source of emissions given a lot of our products are imported from overseas. Additionally, many Pacific Island nations have built a global alliance to phase out coal, oil and gas and have endorsed the Fossil Fuel non-proliferation treaty, which is supposed to be an add on to the COP21 agreement.

Thred: Things seem to be getting out of hand. What are some new ways in which we can be waking people up to the severity of this? How can we remain hopeful?

Daphne: Try to harness the fact that you donโ€™t need to be a perfect activist to do this work. If youโ€™re an artist, youโ€™re an activist. If youโ€™re a storyteller, youโ€™re an activist. If you love to cook nice meals, youโ€™re an activist. Channelling our different niches and interests is how we move forward. The issue at the moment is that people think they have to reinvent themselves and change their entire lifestyle to be climate conscious. That doesnโ€™t necessarily have to be the case. Take veganism. Yes, sustainable consumption habits are incredibly important, but they also erase cultures with historic or traditional ways of eating who use their natural resources to be able to connect with the Earth.

We must learn to respect the land through a regenerative relationship with nature and respect the communities that have been safeguarding it for generations.

Donโ€™t reinvent yourself โ€“ amplify this message.

Selina: The pressure weโ€™re under is being driven by the narrative major corporations are pushing that this all comes down to individual action when itโ€™s really the 1% that are the most responsible for the planetโ€™s destruction. So, itโ€™s essential we hold them accountable and make them take responsibility.

Thred: The science is clear โ€“ we need urgent and effective action to reduce the growing threats against biodiversity and the health of current and future generations. However, many industries (primarily coal, oil, and gas) spend time and money trying to cast doubt on research examining the climate crisis. What strategies have been used to mislead the public and what is the impact of these narratives? And, how can we educate ourselves on environmental disinformation and address this problem to stop it from delaying progress any more than it already has?

Daphne: Greenwashing is rampant.

Fossil fuel companies utilise language in a manipulative way to coerce people into believing that theyโ€™re moving towards sustainability. But fossil fuels can never be sustainable, they caused this crisis. How can we trust these inherently evil companies to change their ways when theyโ€™ve been told repeatedly that theyโ€™re the problem and nothingโ€™s happened?

In terms of enlightening ourselves so that weโ€™re no longer misled, climate communication is the key. How can we disseminate the information to communities who are not well-versed in climate jargon? Yes, we must lead with the science, but if everyone isnโ€™t capable of understanding, then it isnโ€™t helpful. Stop using climate jargon to gatekeep and stop communicating solely in a coloniser language.

We should be communicating in all languages, especially those of the people on the frontlines who are experiencing the brunt of the climate crisis first hand.

Selina: Communication can take on so many different forms. In the Marshall Islands, our culture is passed down orally from generation to generation, so I grew up with storytelling all around me. I remember during COP21, the first conference I attended, former foreign minister Tony deBrum gave his statement for our country in Marshallese. Though I felt like I was listening to my grandfather reading me a bedtime story, for some reason (likely my whitewashed education) I was ashamed. Largely because I worried that people wouldnโ€™t want to pay attention to a speech that wasnโ€™t in English, that didnโ€™t sound like the rest of the delegations. When the speeches were released to the public, however, so many people had resonated with the value heโ€™d placed on our land and our traditions. This is when I realised how much unlearning I had to do. To decolonise my approach to these spaces and remain true to my culture.

Why? Because Authenticity is one of the most powerful tools available to us in this fight.

Thred: Why is intergenerational collaboration so important and how can we be fostering it?

Daphne: I think thereโ€™s a misconception that young people are the be-all and end-all of the climate movement.

Weโ€™re standing on the shoulders of so many communities, organisers, and advocates that have come before us. Disregarding this makes us feel like we can only show up in a very specific way.

People forget that those advocating for the planet are also experiencing the climate crisis. We live in a constant state of juxtaposition. Yes, we have a platform, but we donโ€™t always have to know the answer. We can amplify the voices that need amplifying and speak out when itโ€™s time to do so, but we should also be conscious of when itโ€™s time to take a step back. A balance between generations is important.

Selina: At the last three COPs Iโ€™ve attended, Iโ€™ve seen more and more Pacific nations appointing youth as actual members of the delegations. At COP28, the core team had created a buddy system, which saw young people from the Marshall Islands partnered with either a climate negotiator or lawmaker. Our responsibility was to shadow them and if we needed any kind of support, we could turn to them for advice. This was really powerful because it meant we could go behind closed doors, into spaces we wouldnโ€™t normally have access to. This proved to me that older generations do indeed recognise our role in this movement and how important it is to not only include us in the decision-making process, but to train us so that when we eventually take on their roles, we know exactly how to go about it.

Daphne: I think we need more of that. I remember being so overwhelmed at my first COP and if Iโ€™d had someone there to guide me I think it would have been so much more fruitful and that I wouldโ€™ve been able to actually accomplish the things I hoped to accomplish.

Mentorship goes both ways though, it should be dynamic and not built on a hierarchy. The young person teaches the elder and the elder teaches the young person. A symbiotic relationship where we are constantly learning from each other.

Thred: What are your thoughts on the outcomes from COP28 and what was it like to be there?

Daphne: The first thing that comes to mind is the fact that over 2,000 fossil fuel representatives were in attendance this year. That was really disheartening. The day I found that out I cried in my hotel room. I was really angry because I had to fundraise to be able to be at COP โ€“ and have to do so every year. Itโ€™s not guaranteed that weโ€™ll be able to go. Itโ€™s really hard to gain access. Even if youโ€™re doing this work and carving your space in this movement, getting a badge is like winning the lottery.

There are so many Indigenous People and people from frontline communities who couldnโ€™t get a badge at all. Itโ€™s so emotionally taxing. Not to mention the fact that I had to travel 14 hours to get there when travelling with a disability is an incredibly dangerous and precarious thing. But, infuriatingly, over 2,000 fossil fuel representatives could get badges.

Additionally, this COP was touted as being the most accessible ever, so I was holding out hope for improved inclusivity in this space. However, on day one, after spending eight hours on site, it took me three hours to get home because the accessibility desk that was supposed to help attendees with disabilities had no information about accessible transportation. It was traumatising. I felt like my badge represented all the other people who couldnโ€™t be there and because I couldnโ€™t navigate the site with ease, I felt like I was wasting the opportunity. But I know accessibility is not my responsibility. I should be able to show up and do the work that I want to do.

Weโ€™re opening ourselves up to trauma for the small chance that world leaders might hear our stories and do something about the crisis.

What happened was indicative of the fact that this movement still doesnโ€™t see so many people with differing identities, abilities, and disabilities. It makes me think we arenโ€™t making as much progress as it seems we are. Theyโ€™re great at using words to conceptualise the outcomes as positive when most of it is pretty heart-breaking.

It makes me question if this is work I want to continue doing; if I want to keep putting my body in these exploitative spaces when Iโ€™m not even being seen. Itโ€™s so sad that Iโ€™m being pushed to feel like that because I love this work. And, more importantly, the community this work has provided me with. The real COP doesnโ€™t happen in the negotiation rooms, it happens on the ground, in our huddles, as we try to keep cool in the Dubai heat.

If more of that reality was shown, weโ€™d have better outcomes.

Selina: To touch upon the Loss and Damage fund, I think the amount pledged is ridiculous given the wars that are taking place right now and the billions of dollars that are being funnelled into them. The amount pledged isnโ€™t even $1bn. This suggests that they donโ€™t think saving lives is worth that much.

Thred: How has art increased your connection to the natural world? How can channelling our creativity this way make us think deeply about and feel connected to science and the Earth?

Daphne: I love illustrating. I love using materials and crafting and getting my hands dirty. Being able to express yourself like this is so healing. Eco-anxiety can be so all-consuming and art is a great way to get those feelings out. Itโ€™s also a form of communication.

Thereโ€™s a misconception that to communicate the climate crisis you need to be marching, rallying, and protesting. But art allows us to connect with our planet and the natural resources she has to offer while seeing that everything we need โ€“ our home that needs help โ€“ is right in front of us. Why reinvent the wheel? We just need to get back on the ride.

Selina: At Generation Hope last year, it was drizzling when I arrived in London. Immediately I thought: โ€˜this is a rain to settle the dust.โ€™ A cleansing of sorts. In such a busy city, it came to slow everything down and wash away the chaos. To remind us to be calm and grounded. To me thatโ€™s art. I was raised to interpret the world this way, to notice how nature responds, collaborates, and dances alongside us.

Thred: Multiple generations of Indigenous Peoples have โ€“ and continue to โ€“ live closely with the natural environment. They currently safeguard about 80% of biodiverse areas on Earth. Indigenous knowledge and practices are vital in protecting these ecosystems and for the future of people and the planet. What can be done to ensure they are at the heart of climate and environmental action?

Daphne: Itโ€™s so important that we coexist with nature. We spend so much time trying to detach from it that we forget we are nature ourselves. No one knows this better than Indigenous Peoples, who are rarely given space to be heard. At COP, I spoke to a community from Colombia who told me that they had learned Spanish โ€“ a secondary language for them โ€“ to be able to communicate. This made me sad. That they have to change who they are so they can share their stories with the world.

They should be able to show up exactly how they are. They shouldnโ€™t need to learn a new language to have legitimacy. They have innate legitimacy through their lived experiences.

Itโ€™s sincerely unjust that we exploit these communities and make them show up in a hyper-formatted way if they want to be listened to. They have to lose so much to exist as they are currently. I want to hear them as they are and for everyone to know that itโ€™s okay for you to be uncomfortable as a listener sometimes. It doesnโ€™t always have to conform to you in order to be valid.

Most of the time we arenโ€™t comfortable with being uncomfortable. This is a grave emergency. Youโ€™re going to need to be uncomfortable if weโ€™re going to see the solutions we truly need. If that means being communicated to in a language thatโ€™s foreign to you โ€“ so be it.

Thred: Climate anxiety, burnout, and feelings of hopelessness are at an all-time high. How can we be building individual and collective resilience to take effective climate action?

Daphne: I think we have to be honest about the fact that we donโ€™t always have it together. And thatโ€™s okay! We also have to remember that on the days weโ€™re unable to carry the weight of the world on our shoulders, someone else will be there to pick it up for us. For a long time I felt like I was failing if I wasnโ€™t doing everything. But rest is so important. As is having a sustainable relationship with your body.

You cannot have a sustainable relationship with the Earth if you donโ€™t have a sustainable relationship with yourself. Before you make lifestyle changes to save the planet, ensure youโ€™re in line with yourself and your values and who you want to be. Then you can show up for the rest of the world.

Selina: The body keeps the score. So, listen to your body and rest. Rest is resistance!!!

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